Ms. Hu Shuli is a controversial figure. 

She is well known internationally, 

both as one of the “50 Stars of Asia” by Business Week in 2001, 

and one of the Times “100 Influential People”, 

yet still regarded as “The Most Dangerous” 

Woman in China by others. 

Is she the self-professed “fighter for democracy and freedom” she claims to be? A “fighter for human rights”, 

“defender of law”? And what is her relationship with Mr. Guo Wengui, who she has dubbed the “power hunter”? 

  

Others have suggested she is aligned with the CCP 

a master manipulator of the global media, 

whose multi-faceted deceptions run deep into the Chinese system, 

able to control great wealth whilst maintaining as stranglehold on the press 

Is Mr. Guo Wengui the vulture, or the prey? 

  

Today we seek to uncover Ms. Hu Shuli's true role in the media 

Who is the vulture？ 

Who is the hunter? 

  

啊，这个我本人首先我向BBC的所有观众，向各位你们问好 

Oh, first let me extend a warm greeting to our audience from the BBC. 

  

我本人的资产没有，是零，还是负资产 

I have no assets at all, to be precise, I am in negative equity. 

  

我的家族信托基金控制资产在280亿美金 

The assets controlled by my Family Trust Fund amount to 28 billion dollars (USD), 

  

不包含国内的1200亿人民币的资产 

excluding the domestic assets of 120 billion RMB（Renminbi） 

  

那现在您的财富，有麻烦的部分是在中国？ 

So Is it the domestic part of your portfolio that is in trouble? 

  

全是在国内的，全是在国内的 

It is the domestic part, 

是1200亿人民币 

Valued at 120 billion RMB 

  

那最近又什么消息么？ 

Has there been any recent developments? 

 

最近还是有不好的消息 

Unfortunately, there has been some difficulties. 

  

因为我的爆料吧，国内的这些 

Due to my revealing some secrets, every aspect 

 

各个方面都给我施压 

of my life has been subject to increased pressure domestically 

  

本来是要妥善解决的，现在因为爆料导致了复杂的情况 

This has resulted in a complicated situation, whereas the matter was supposed to have been resolved previously. 

  

国内的资产因为第二期爆料当中很明确，就是阻止我爆料 

Apparently, they exert pressure on my domestic assets to prohibit me from revealing more secrets(again). 

  

如果第二期继续爆的话，说是对我家人会采取不利的手段 

If I go on to do so, I was told that my family would be treated unfavorably. 

  

可能再把我家人，很多放出来的人要抓回去 

My family, and the people who were released, or people of a wider scope, would probably be put under arrest again 

  

包括对我的资产要进行拍卖，所谓的拍卖 

This includes selling my assets at auction, their so-called auction 

  

甚至是通过法律手段，通过依法的手段 

Selling or handling, my assets at auction by means of law, 

  

实际上是非法的目的了，把我的资产 

in order to achieve their unlawful aims 

  

拍卖啊，或者处理掉，这是他们想的 

is what they truly want, 

  

昨天晚上的时候，我们的员工、律师 

Last night ,our staff and lawyer were informed about 

  

被叫到北京市三中院（第三中级人民法院） 

an auction at The Third Intermediate People's Court of Beijng 

  

就是通知我们要拍卖我们的，当时涉及的一个叫 

We were informed that our Zhong Tai Trust, which is worth one billion (RMB) 

  

中泰信托十亿的这么一个目标 

will be placed up for sale in auction 

  

但是担保了42套盘古公寓的房子 

It was assured that 42 sets of houses of Pangu Plaze. 

  

这个价值实际上是60亿， 

Which were equivalent to 6 billion dollars, were mortgaged 

  

据说这房产呢，这个财务的目标实际上是被 

There were actually bought by a Hong Kong 

  

  

香港的一家上市公司，叫嘉年华给买走了 

listed company called Carnival Group 

  

嘉年华的老板，就是我们曾庆淮先生的女儿叫曾宝宝 

Zeng Baobao, the daughter of  Mr.zeng Qinghuai , 

is the boss of Carnival Group 

  

他是前国家副主席曾庆红先生的弟弟 

Mr. Zeng Qinghuai is the younger brother of Mr. Zeng Qinghong, 

  

这也就是他的侄女儿 

the former Vice President of China 

So, Zeng Baobao is Mr. Zeng Qinghong’s niece 

  

所以从这点你可以看的出来，外界说我是曾庆红的背景 

Therefore, it is definitely wrong to associate me 

  

这是肯定不对的 

with Zeng Qinghong from this point of view 

  

同时昨天也看到了北京方正证券的上市公司的公告 

Meanwhile, yesterday I saw the Founder Securities Company Limited Listed companies notice 

 

就是取消政泉公司在方正证券董事会的投票权和收益权 

It was about the cancellation of voting and income rights of the Beijing Zenith Holdings at 

Founder Securities Company Limited, 

  

并起诉我们，这是同一天的行动 

and that they are suing us. These two actions were carried out on the same day in order 

  

这是要剥夺我们政泉置业，在方正证券的一切权益 

to deprive the Beijing Zenith Holdings of any rights at Founder Securities Company Limited. 

  

这个目的很简单，就是阻止我，不让我再继续爆料 

The aim was, simply, to prohibit me from revealing any more secrets. 

  

记者 

者意图有什么深的含义呢，就像您前两集在网上 

What are the implications of this move? For example, 

  

视频里透露了很多东西 

your previous two videos revealed a great deal, and you touched on quite a lot of issues. 

  

视频里，您也说了，受到很大压力 

You mentioned in the videos that you are under a lot of pressure. 

  

中国现在最新发生的事情，是不是当局已经把妥协 

From what has happened recently in China, 

  

折中的一些空间给堵死了 

is it fair to say that the authorities have killed any opportunity for compromise? 

  

说明您在国内已经没有回旋的余地了呢？ 

In other words, you have no means to negotiate in China? 

  

拍卖您的资产，去掉方正政泉的股份 

Selling your assets at auction will eradicate any shares in Founder Securities Company Limited 

  

郭文贵先生： 

事实上，在一期爆料之前，已经一直在跟我接触 

In fact, prior to revealing any secrets, I was consistently approached. 

  

我们在伦敦有过两次见面，和中纪委、公安部、政法委派来的人 

During the two meetings with the representatives of the Central Commission for Discipline Inspection, 

  

这谈判当中很明确就是希望我配合，同时我就不要发声 

The Ministry of Public Security, the Ministry of Public Security (MPS) and the Central Political 

  

然后他们想要我的一些东西 

And Legal Affairs Commission in London, it was clear from the negotiation that they wanted me to cooperate to not to speak out, and that they also want certain things from me. 

  

这要的东西，我在第一集、第二集已经说到了 

Regarding the things they want, I made it very clear that I do not have what they wanted, 

  

我说我根本没有，但他们不信 

However, they didn’t believe me. 

  

后来，我在明镜电视，有了第一集的爆料 

After I revealed some information, through Mingjing Media, 

  

第一集爆料之后，他们当然很不高兴 

It was clear that they were not happy. 

  

也采取了一些措施，但是，还是按照第一集之前的情况下 

They adopted some measures. However, compared to how things were before the revelations, 

  

还是往前有点推进的，最起码我女儿回来了嘛 

the situation has improved. At least my daughter has returned. 

  

公司各个方面，项目组也撤出去了 

The Special Investigating Team (SIT) also withdrew from all aspects of the company. 

  

但是第二集爆料，特别是阻止对傅政华先生的爆料 

However, when I spoke out for a second time, I did take their advice about 

  

当时我是听了，但是毕竟我说出了贺国强先生 

not revealing Mr. Fu Zhenghua’s secrets into account. 

  

还有李源潮先生等一些爆料 

However, I still managed to reveal certain things about Mr. He Guoqiang and Mr. Li Yuanchao. 

  

他们说很不高兴的 

They were very upset. 

  

我的老领导也不高兴啊 

My veteran leader was upset too, 

 

在这种情况下，他们说那么那你必须从现在不能再说话了 

Under these circumstances, they told me that I must not speak out from now on, 

  

也不要再发Twitter 了 

or continue to use twitter. 

  

大家都知道，从二集以后我还是继续发Twitter 

Everyone knows that I continue to post updates on Twitter even after the second round of revelations. 

  

我在他们背信弃义的情况下，又继续到我公司进行盘问员工， 

They continue to be deceitful, as well as continuing to examine my staff at my company. 

  

威胁的情况下，我马上爆了第三期，我给了预告了时间 

I intend to reveal a third round of secrets, and I have already given out a preliminary announcement. 

  

而且明确，我一定要对傅政华先生，我提供指控证据 

I made it very clear that I targeted Mr. Fu Zhenghua, I have provided evidence regarding his charges. 

  

那么北京我的老领导，还有有关部门都非常不高兴 

Therefore, my senior leader in Beijing and 

  

已经跟我断了所有的联系 

some other units concerned were very unhappy. They have broken off all contact with me. 

  

现在呢，就是要求我不能爆料，然后要让我看一看 

As for now, they continue to ask that I don’t reveal any more. 

  

郭文贵，现在就对你的资产进行全面处理 

Then they tell me to watch how they will completely take care of my, Gou Wengui’s assets. 

  

记者 

你讲老领导，现在已经成为继郭文贵先生之后， 

The veteran leader you mentioned previously has 

  

另外一个网络，也算是名人啦 

now become another internet celebrity like you. 

  

他也是个非常神秘的人物，这就让我们的观众， 

He is also an extremely mysterious person. 

 

可能想到在中国的商场上做生意时一种什么情况 

Our audiences can probably imagine how running a business in China would be. 

  

大家可以想象吧，就是说，您在前面讲的你爆料的目的 

It’s very easy to imagine, based on what you’ve said, 

  

是保命，保钱，然后复仇 

just why you reveal what you do: firstly, to secure your life and property; secondly, for revenge 

  

那现在公开的讲话您是反应一种什么情况 

So, what are you trying to respond to, what is your aim, 

  

或者达到什么様的目的 

By speaking in public now? 

 

郭文贵： 

第一集的保命保钱报仇啊，是我一个个人的目标 

At first it was to secure my life, my property, and for revenge. 

  

从第一集第二集播出以后，引起这反响在我预料之中 

After the first and second broadcasts, I expected this sort of reaction. 

  

但在很多人预料之外 

However, it exceeded many people’s expectations. 

  

引起的反响是多层面的 

It has had wide ranging implications. 

  

特别是对大家都关注的现在反腐败当中体现的，以警反腐 

In particular, these injustices, such as feigned and misjudged cases resulting from the anti- corruption force 

  

以黑反腐这导致的冤假错案，包括以黑反腐导致的一种新的腐败 

and anti-corruption police corruption. These cases are embodied in the anti-corruption campaigns which concern everyone. 

  

毫不夸张的说，这一次腐败当中所诞生的腐败 

It would be no exaggeration to say that this new kind of corruption is so huge that it is far beyond 

  

新的腐败远远超过这次打击腐败所有财务标订的目标 

the sum of the targets of the current anti-corruption campaign 

 

我认为是这様子的，特别是，我掌握的一些证据 

I believe in this. I have evidence that supports what I say. The extant of the corruption is significant, amounting to. 

  

在这个反腐败的几个权力，最重要的几个领导当中 

hundreds of billions approximately, chiefly by several main authorities. 

  

几个人腐败的金额都是几千亿的 

amongst them authorities of the anti-corruption campaign 

  

对人权、人性这种摧残，我在明镜第一集和第二集都说到了 

I mentioned how this is a detriment to human rights and humanity in general. 

  

这个用语言都是无法形容的 

I don’t even have the words to express this. 

  

比如我说过，把女员工放在椅子上，拷两三天 

For example, I have spoken of a female employee who was placed on a chair and handcuffed for two to three days. 

  

然后把手伸到人家裤裆里，去摸人家的阴部，问人家尿了没有 

They then touched her vagina through her trousers and asked her if she had wet herself. 

  

然后几个男人，几个警察让一个女孩脱光，要检查她的身体 

After that, several male policemen forced her to strip naked in order to check her body. 

  

让男孩子，戴上脚镣手铐以后，在那手淫给他们看 

Boys were handcuffed and forced to show the policemen how they masturbate. 

  

这个国内的情况在国内都是有消息的 

There is news internally about such happenings. 

  

嗯，都是有来源 

Yes, there are sources. 

  

这个反腐运动 

This an anti-corruption campaign 

  

我认为反腐大家都是支持的 

I think that everybody supports this anti-corruption campaign. 

  

习主席的这个反腐，我相信，对国，对当 

I believe that President Xi’s Anti-corruption campaign is beneficial to the country. 

  

对目前对社会都是好的 

the party and to contemporary society. 

  

但是最大的问题，他这个反腐运动已经被别人利用了 

The main problem, however, is that President Xi’s Anti-corruption campaign is exploited. 

  

被别人绑架了 

or hijacked by other people. 

  

那么，现在真正背后很深层次的背景 

So, we can build up a picture deeper picture of what happening, 

  

咱们在爆料中会逐渐地揭露出来 

and gradually expose the truth 

  

您提的这个老领导，是不是在中国做到您这个层次的商人 

With respect to the senior leader you mentioned, 

  

必须得有一些政界的联系 

Is it true that a businessman must acquire a political network. 

  

这是一种中国商场一种凖则，大家都这么做是不是 

This is a normality of doing business in China. Doesn’t everybody do it? 

  

大家都有，背后有…… 

They all have political networks, even hidden ones… 

  

这様说法，是不凖确 

To put it this way, is not strictly accurate. 

  

在哪个国家，政府和我们这样纳税过百亿的企业 

A government would always have contacts with enterprises like us. 

 

都会有一些联系，有关系 

Those who pay over ten billions taxes, no matter in which country. 

 

这个老领导，就是当时政府的认识我的人 

This veteran leader was the governmental representative knew me then 

 

对我也表示过赞赏，对我企业一点儿经济关系也没有 

He appreciated what I did, however he did not have any economic relations with my enterprise. 

 

那么他现在是一个我能基本信赖的人 

He is the only one I believe in right now 

 

李友背后这些政治局常委员股东、常委股东 

Those members of the Politburo and the members of the Standing Committee supporting Li You, 

 

包括现在公检法和纪委项目的人呢 

currently include officials from the Ministry of Public Security, the People’s Procuratorate and the court 

 

他能说上话，沟通，实际上，他是一个和平的劝说者 

He becomes the bridge for communication. He is a peaceful persuader. 

 

或者调节者，他不代表任何权力 

Or Mediator. In fact, he does not represent any authorities 

 

那就是，您认为国内的些腐败的，黑暗的情况 

What would you consider the main part of the corruption, or the dark side? What are the problems of the business world? 

 主要是什么，就是商场上的问题，商场官商勾结是怎么样 

In what manner does the collusion between businessmen and government officials take place? 

 

还是怎么形容呢 

How would you describe it? 

 

我觉得，中国不存在官商勾结 

I think there is no such thing as collusion between businessmen and government officials. 

 

说中国官商勾结 

It would be thinking too highly of Chinese businessmen 

 

太看得起中国的商人了 

to suggest a situation of collusion between businessmen and government officials 

 

中国的官和商的关系，我觉得 

The relationship between the businessmen and the officials in China 

 

就像一个夜总会里面小姐和妈咪的关系 

to me, is more like to the relationship between the prostitutes and procurers of the nightclub. 

 

我认为是这种关系，小姐是被迫来的 

I feel that in such kind of relationship, the prostitutes are forced to take part. 

 

现在是，妈咪要来抓反腐，小姐只能是被动的 

So, if the procurer intends to implement anti-corruption 

 

官商之间，基本上所有私人企业今天都非常困难 

the prostitutes are passive agents. In general, all private enterprises are in a difficult position in the context of such a relationship. 

 

官商之间，基本上所有私人企业今天都非常困难 

Such as between the businessmen and the officials. 

 

没有独立性，没有决策权 

There are no independence nor decision-making rights. 

 

而且官方让你干什么，你必须干什么 

You are required to follow official orders. 

 

勾结基本上还是一种相对的关系 

Collusion is still a relative relation basically. 

 

中国的私营企业，连小三都算不上，这就是悲剧角色 

The private enterprises in China cannot even be defined as mistresses, they are simply tragic roles. 

 

但是，中国是不是有一些媒体监督 

However, doesn’t China have certain media watchdogs. 

 

比如财经方面的媒体，有一些独立的声音在反应这些情况 

such as the financial media, or certain independent media who work to report on such situations? 

 

您怎么看呢？这方面 

What is your opinion? 

 

中国反腐运动当中 

The antic corruption campaign has aroused many problems. 

 

之所以出现那么多问题 

There are many problems aroused from the anti-corruption campaign. 

 

很重要的一个原因是，就是缺乏媒体的监督 

One of the main reasons is that there is a lack of media watchdogs. 

 

这就没有了依法治国，治理的“治”，的起码基础了，因为它没有监督 

Rule by law cannot be implemented due to the absence of its groundwork: monitoring. 

 

而就是没有监督，才造成了黑箱作业，以警治国 

Such absence of media watchdogs results in black box operations, 

 

以警反腐，以黑反腐的这种的事情就发生了 

and hence the presence of rule by the police, anti-corruption against the police, anti-corruption against gangs   

 

比如说，就是稍有几个可以发生的媒体，也基本上是被操纵的 

For example, the limited media permitted to speak out, are in fact, being controlled. 

 

也都是假新闻和假信息，那么这个没有监督 

They are all partaking in the creation of fake news, and both the absence of monitors and 

 

又是加监督，这对社会的伤害和知情权，那是完全是相反的方向 

fake monitoring are harmful to our society. They violate the public’s right to knowledge and information 

 

那这具体是什么？ 

Can you be more specific? 

 

你比如说，《财新》杂志，胡舒立女士 

For example, the Caixin magazine, Ms. Hu Shuli, as you mentioned. 

 

当初报导的，关于我《郭文贵，权力的猎手》 

The previous report, concerning me, “Guo the Power Hunter” 

 

这对我造成了致命的伤害 

were fatal to me. 

 

和海外他们控制的博讯等媒体 

and the oversea media they controlled such as Boxun News. 

 

像胡舒立所有的报导中，恰恰相反 

It is exactly the opposite to what has been reported by Hu Shuli. 

 

她真正是一个依仗权力发展的一个中国媒体，很强大的私人媒体 

She is a strong private media outlet, someone who can be relied on to develop private media. 

 

中国改革开放以来，你给我说一个， 

Can you name me any state-owned media in China? 

 

哪一个中国的国营的媒体被私人全部收购走的？ 

which has been privately purchased since the Chinese Economic Reform? 

 

没有，只有一家，就是她的《财经》杂志和 

No, none. There is only one, 

 

当时的《中国改革开放》杂志 

her Caixin magazine and the Chinese Reform Magazine. 

 

就是让胡舒立女士和她在行内非常有影响力的丈夫 

It is Ms. Hu Shuli, and her husband, Mr. Miao Di. Mr. Miao is very 

Influential in the media industry, 

  

叫苗棣先生，是中国广电学院文学院的一个院长 

And he is the Dean of the Faculty of Arts in The 

Communication University of China. 

  

利用他们手上的资源，将国有企业、国有媒体掠为己有 

They manipulated their resources to make the state-owned enterprise 

and media their own. However, 

  

但是她所有的报道，看上去都是有关政治的报道 

All her reports are political issues, in other words, 

  

或者说是官方的一个唯一的代言人 

She is the only official spokesmen. 

  

那她为什么有这个权力呢？ 

Why she is so powerful? 

  

那很简单。首先她就是权力的猎手,但很不幸的事情 

This is simple. First, she is the power hunter. Unfortunately, I think 

she is not qualified to be the power hunter. 

  

我认为她都不配当权力的猎手 

Since all those officials she reported on 

  

因为她所有报道的权利的官员的腐败 

Who are involved in corruption are those minorities who were, 

  

都是被中纪委双规，或者是肯定被双规的弱势群体 

or would surely be Shuang-gui (or “twin regulations”), an internal disciplinary process 

conducted by the Central Commission for Discipline Inspection. 

  

我认为她是权力的秃鹫 

I think she is a vulture seeking authority: 

  

她没有报道过一个真正在职的中央政治局委员和常委 

She has never reported any of the Members of the Standing Committee 

of the Political Bureau of the CPC Central Committee, or Members of the Political 

Bureau of the CPC Central Committee, who are in service. 

 

 那么，她实际上是某些政治家的工具 

Therefore, she is indeed the tool of certain politicians 

  

也就是赢者的工具，从来不是输者的代言人和发声，没有公正性 

or the winners; but she is never the spokesman of the loser, 

There is no justice at all. 

  

我插一句，你讲到一些个人的细节 

Let me say one thing here. You have mentioned some personal details, 

  

我们有些东西还是没法核实的，我们作为广播方 

Which we cannot verify as a broadcasting unit. 

  

那么就是说，您谈到胡舒立这个人，实际上在英语主流媒体 

In fact, Hu Shuli is thought of very highly by the 

  

多年来，十几年来对她评价是很高的 

English language mainstream media for over a decade. 

  

比如是说她是中国最有影响力的女人啊 

For example, she is considered to be China’s most powerful woman, 

  

亚洲最值得关注的50个女性之一，还有年度最佳的编辑 

Included in the 50 Women to Watch in Asian, Editor of the year. 

  

这个都是《华尔街时报》、《金融时报》、《商业周刊》提到的 

She has been mentioned in The Wall Street Journal, Financial Times 

and Business week 

  

就是她在海外是很有影响，而且认可率是很高的 

She has been recognized as being influential overseas, 

A statement echoed in many outlets. 

  

那么您有没有什么具体的看法，就是您 

Do you have any specific views on this? 

  

说她是秃鹫，这个怎么说具体这个支撑呢？ 

Just like you considered her a vulture? Do you have any supporting evidence? 

  

胡舒立女士，是中国的所谓爆料媒体，或者财经专业 

Ms. Hu Shuli, is the so called the China whistleblower. 

She is almost the only person reporting financial issues, 

  

还有涉及到官方的一些比较早的一些反腐信息爆料的最主要媒体 

and she was one of the first to reveal official 

  

几乎成了唯一了 

antic corruption information. 

  

成为唯一的事情，背后都有值得商榷的地方 

To say she is the only one, is worthy of further discussion. 

  

特别是我对胡舒立女士的了解，跟所有公众对她的了解是不一样的 

I have particular views on Ms. Hu Shuli, which is quite different the public. 

  

因为我是当事人，她是我的合伙人（李友） 

She is the girlfriend of Li You, my partner. 

  

他的女朋友，他俩有个不正常的男女关系 

They are involved in an improper sexual relationship. 

  

这是我说的，我负责任 

I am responsible for what I say. 

  

我在原来说过 同时胡舒立女士公司股权的来源，很清楚的 

I have made this very clear, as well as where the equity 

of Ms. Hu Shuli’s company is from, previously. 

  

像你们BBC，你们不可能说你去帮你们的股东 

Take the BBC as an example, you cannot help your shareholders and 

Investors by attacking their competitors, 

  

帮助你们的投资者，去报道另外一方去打击 

This is not fair. This is a public media, and as such they are to be held accountable. 

  

这是不公平的，这是公众媒体，公权力就失去了它的公正性了 

However, my partner Li You, 

  

而她本身，她的老板，其中就有一个就是我的敌人，股东李友 

Was one of the enemies of her boss. 

  

那么她对我的报道本身就是失去公正的 

There is a lack of justice in her reports concerning me. 

  

另外在海外这些名头，所谓这些影响力，实际都是假的 

Furthermore, all her overseas titles and power are all phony. 

 

它主要是3个原因，国内的官方权力背景 

There are three main factors. 

 

给她造就了一些这样的环境 

The domestic official authority which works to create such conditions for her. 

 

她才能这样，否则她是不可能的 

Otherwise this could never be possible. 

 

第二个呢，她拥有国内别人没有的一些资源 

Secondly, she has access to some unique resources. 

 

她先生苗棣先生，是中国广电学院文学院的院长 

Her husband, Mr. Miao Di, is the Dean of the Faculty of Arts in Communication University of China. 

 

她本身有在这个领域那么多年了，还有她背后的政治老板 

She has been working in this area for many years, and the political director behind her, 

 

是现在中央的常委之一，现任常委之一 

Is one of the current Members of the Politburo Standing Committee. 

 

他要利用她，把她当成工具，当成权力的猎手 

He uses her as a tool, by performing as a power hunter, or the vulture of authority. 

 

或者权力的秃鹫，这两个角色 

She has to be powerful. 

 

她必须要有一定的影响力，是他们培养出来的，但那都是假的 

They bring her up as such a powerful person. However, it is all fake. 

  

您讲媒体这个话题，就是说您在海外生活 

You have talked about the media. I assume you understand the UK and the USA quite well since you 

 

工作、经商也是很多年，非常了解英美这些国家 

have been living, working, and doing business overseas for a number of years. 

 

就是比较一下，英美国家这些媒体的独立性 

How do these two countries compare, in regards to the independence of journalism, 

 

对商界，对有权有势人物的监督 

and the corporate and governmental influence upon the media there? 

 

您认为有哪些特别不一样的地方，还是有些相通的地方 

What are the safeguards? 

  

蒙克先生，我需要把胡舒立女士的事情说完 

Mr. Menghe, I need to finish the story of Ms. Hu Shuli. 

 

我希望观众都有一些连续性的理解 

I hope audiences will forgive any breaks in continuity. 

 

所以胡舒立女士的这些，你说在海外这些事件 

I think the overseas issues you mentioned concerning 

 

我感觉的就是一个悲剧 

Ms. Hu Shuli are regrettable. 

 

我看她在海外前呼后拥，所有媒体对她的尊重和给她的这些荣誉 

I have seen her be the center of attention overseas, and the respect and admiration that follows her. 

 

这就是回答你刚才西方的媒体 

To return to your question on the western media. 

 

西方的媒体也到了一个和时代必须要对接的时候了 

The western media needs to connect with the times, 

 

有很多方面的原因 

For various reasons. 

 

比如说，现在大家都关注的假新闻 

For example, the fake news concerns everybody. 

 

比如说现在，媒体也失去了大家想象的公正性 

Like now the media is losing their impartiality, and yet no one is surprised. 

 

甚至所谓的第四权力也好，这个监督性也不是像想象的那样 

Even the supervision of the fourth estate is not what has been expected. 

 

这是为什么我要接受当时明镜采访 

This is why I accepted the interview from Mingjing Media. 

 

因为我希望我的采访不被剪接，是真实的 

Because I want my interview to tell the truth, no editing, no misinterpretation. 

 

那么像《财新》这个事情，大家可以看得出来 

So, the truth of the Caixin matter is plain to see, 

 

它的真相就在那儿摆着呢 

I’m sure everyone can see it. 

 

没有人去问说，胡舒立的企业是怎么来的？ 

Is there nobody asking, how did Ms. Hu Shuli’s enterprise develop? 

 

胡舒立女士的企业是靠什么维持的，运营的？ 

How is Ms. Hu Shuli’s enterprise being maintained and run? 

 

胡舒立女士的报导是真是假？ 

Is the news reported by Ms. Hu Shuli true? 

 

比如说我，“权力的猎手”，我是怎么权力的猎手了呢？ 

For example, “the power hunter”, how do I become a power hunter? 

 

第一个，我从没买过官方一块地，我没有利益输送我啊 

Firstly, I have never bought any piece of official land, I am not involved in any transfer of the benefits concerned. 

 

第二个，我没有在，没有在中国赚任何钱拿出来，我是投资进去的 

Secondly, I have never transferred any money I earned domestically to foreign countries, I invest only. 

 

第三个，我投资了北大方正的事情，到今天为止 

Thirdly, regarding the investment to Founder Securities, 

 

我的成本投了大概180亿 

It has cost me around 18 billion up till now 

 

我拿到所有手的股票18亿股方正证劵的股票 

Of the 1.8 billion shares of Founder Securities stock I have, 

 

加一起还不到160亿 

Its value is not yet worth 16 billion. 

 

所以说，我唯一和国营企业打交道的 

Therefore, the only business I have been made with any state-owned enterprise, was concerning a certain amount 

 

就是当时的民族证劵的一部分股权来自首都机场 

Of stock of China MinZu Securitise, and this stock was from the Beijing Capital International Airport. 

 

那么到现在看，我已经是将近8年时间了，没赚一分钱 

It has been almost eight years, and I have never eared any money. 

 

那我肯定是没有利益输送，那我怎么成“权力的猎手”了呢？ 

That means I have no way to transfer benefits. How would I become “the power hunter”? 

 

马健副部长是唯一和我有关系的 

Vice Minister Ma Jian is the only person who has contact with me 

 

马健副部长的案子马上就要开审了 

And the legal case concerning Vice Minister Ma will be in session soon. 

 

大家可以看卷宗，和郭文贵半点关系都没有 

Please go and check the file, there is nothing relevant to Guo Wengui. 

 

那张越，叫他们说的，跟我半点关系都没有 

Zhang Yue, according to what they said, there is nothing related to me. 

 

我就是因为我是草根，就是穷人出来，一个算是成功的人 

I am who I am because of where I came from. I achieved success despite my social background. 

 

对这个有很深的血统论的胡舒立而言，她老以老舍的女儿自居 

Hu Shuli is very concerned about Jus sanuinis (citizenship by heritage) 

  

以自己是贵族而自居 

She considers herself the daughter of Lao She and therefore a noble. 

  

这是她的根本的出发点，所以她认为她是权力的那一部分人 

This is her origins: she believes that she is part of authority. 

  

所以像我这样草根出来的人，就是她打击的对象 

I grew up in the lower classes and therefore become an easy target to strikes at. 

  

而且，不用考虑后果，因为我没有背景，没有后台 

Furthermore, there is no need for her to consider the consequences, since I have no political networks. 

  

所以说你看，胡舒立报导我的时候 

Therefore, you may have noticed, why there is no foreign media conducting research. 

  

为什么外国的媒体没有任何去研究，她报导的是真是假呢？ 

over the report concerning me presented by Hu Shuli? Is her news true? 

  

事实上，我今天要给你爆个料啊 

Indeed, I have some things I would like to reveal today. 

  

今天我这是，突然想起来的，胡舒立女士呢 

As it turns out I remember that Ms. Hu Shuli manipulated the news concerning President Xi’s families’ property in the past. 

  

我现在有充分的证据 

I have sufficient evidence indicating 

  

她主要是操纵了当年报导习近平主席家庭资产的， 

她是幕后操纵者之一 

that she was one of the hidden manipulators 

  

所以，我认为胡舒立女士是一个政治的敲诈者 

So, I believe Ms. Hu Shuli is a political blackmailer. 

  

为什么我这么说呢？ 

Why would I make such a statement? 

  

我再插一句，这是我们无法核实的一个信息 

I need to interrupt you, we have no way of verifying your claim 

  

我今天准备了一个资料，我现在给你出具一个数据啊 

I have prepared some information for today, 

I am going to provide you with the specific details. 

 

这个文件的原件在我这里 

I have the original copy of the document here. 

  

我现在可以送给您一份，这个是胡舒立女士，亲自她自己的签名 

I can give you a copy now, this was signed by Ms. Hu Shuli, 

  

你请看时间，2013年4月10号，她写给习近平主席的这封信 

Please take a look at the date, 10th April, 2013, a letter she wrote to President Xi. 

  

这封信，我今天可以送给您 

I can give you this letter today 

  

我希望您在您的网上注销来 

I hope you will you to put the letter on the Internet 

  

这封信代表了什么呢？ 

What does this letter imply? 

  

胡舒立女士在操作了习近平主席所谓的家产报导以后 

After Ms. Hu Shuli manipulated the “news” concerning the family property of President Xi. 

  

造了这个谣以后，然后他又开始要通过我，把这封信送给习主席 

And after she started the rumor, she would like me to pass this letter to President Xi. 

  

你看到信中她写的，无论是钓鱼岛事件 

You can see from the letter that 

  

无论是中美关系，她都想参与 

She wants to involve in the Diaoyu Islands in the Sino-US relations. 

  

我认为，这就像中国很多案子一样 

I reckon this is only one of the many cases in China. 

  

这个背后有人制造了一个谣言，制造了一个 

In order to allow the leader to put oneself in an important position, 

often people will start a rumor. 

  

对中央领导人的这么一个故事，那么同时呢 

usually concerning state leaders 

  

再告诉领导，我能解决，然后得到领导的重视 

and then let the leaders know that they have the ability to solve that problem. 

  

中国的很多大案、要案，就是这样发生的 

This is exactly how many of the big and important cases in China are established. 

  

所以，胡舒立是一个政治敲诈者 

Therefore, Ms. Hu Shuli is a political blackmailer. 

  

当年她报导了鲁能事件 

At the time she reported the incident of Shandong Luneng Group 

  

鲁能事件它本身就是敲诈当时的曾庆红主席 

it was her intention was to blackmailed Mr. Zeng Qinghong, the former (Vice) President of China 

 

这个很多事实是跟她报导完全不符的 

Her reports were quite inconsistent with the facts 

  

那么谁让她报导当时的曾庆红主席？ 

So, who asked her to report on Mr. Zeng Qinghong, the former (Vice) President of China? 

  

一定是有人让她报导的，她不可能说出于媒体的公正性 

There must be someone who asked her to do so. 

  

那绝对不是这样 

There is no way that she did this because of the impartiality of the media. 

  

因为，现在时间已经过去了 

This is because, as time has gone by. 

  

你没有见过她再过报导任何一个国家现任政治局常委、政治局委员 

have you ever heard of her reporting anymore on the Standing committee and members of the Politburo? 

  

为什么呢？因为没有人在背后让她去这么做 

Why not? Because nobody asked her to. 

  

这些报导的内幕，包括一些政治内幕 

These inside stories, including those of political nature. 

  

我们作为一个媒体的一个猜测，郭先生已经爆了很多了 

We as the media believe that Mr. Guo has revealed a great deal already. 

  

我下一个问题是，像你这样一个成功的商人 

My next question is: The public considers you a successful businessman. 

 

大家给你定位就是一个富豪，国内有媒体还说您是一个邪性的富豪 

A billionaire, there is the domestic media that considers you an evil billionaire. 

 

但你是不是说，你除了是一个大亨，是一个富豪 

So, would you consider yourself both a tycoon and a billionaire? 

 

你现在进行的这种政治爆料啊，这是一场政治上的声讨 

What do you aim to achieve through revealing political secrets? 

 

你要达到一个什么目的？ 

In views of the fact that this could be a political condemnation 

 

你怎么看自己这个角色 

How do you consider your role? 

 

这个国内传的两个视频，很有意思 

These two domestic videos are very interesting 

 

邪性富豪这个我看了，这个是挺搞笑的 

I have watched the video about the evil billionaire and it is quite funny 

 

我很惊讶的是，竟然以公安部的，戴着国徽出来在社会上播放 

According to the law of china, my case is in progress 

 

按照中国的法律，我这个案件还没有完 

Therefore, I was shocked that these videos were released in the name of the Ministry of Public Security and state emblem 

 

如果说，没有完的案件 

It may be considered that any messages released 

 

公安部出来播放任何信息都是犯罪的，这是犯罪的。 

by the Ministry of Public Security concerning cases that are in progress are illegal. This is illegal 

 

另外一个，它绝对不真实，按照我的邪性富豪，它说了11个人 

Another point is that this is faked .11 people are named according to the evil billionaire video, however 

 

其中史发亮的案子跟我一点关系都没有 

Shi Faliang s case is not relevant to me 

 

王友杰的案子跟我一点关系都没有，马健的案子肯定会跟我没有任何关系。 

Neither Wang Youjie s case, nor Ma Jian’s case. 

 

我没有任何实行犯罪，到现在为止，没有任何指控我犯罪 

I have never been involved in or been charged for any illegal practices until this moment 

 

那么其中，我弟弟那个事情更是假的 

The case about my younger brother is fake news 

 

我弟弟是被喝醉酒的警察给打死了 

Drunk police officers beat my younger brother to death 

 

打死以后还不让医院医治，在26个小时以后流血死亡 

They didn’t allow doctors to save him.  he died from loss of blood over a period of 26 hours 

 

当时，把我关了十几个月，还在我这个脚上扎了死刑镣 

They locked me up for more than 10 months, and had me in shackles (for the death penalty) which weighed 26kg 

 

26公斤死刑镣，戴着死刑镣，在我脚脖子上 

And they handcuffed me. They put them on my ankles for 8 months 

 

戴了8个月，我在那里被关了18个月 

I was locked up for 18 months 

 

(那个，还可以看到)还可以看到 

（can we still see it）we can still see it 

 

那么，这个邪性富豪，按照它的逻辑 

So according to their logic, this evil billionaire: 

 

第一， 如果因为我，所谓家人的死亡或受伤 

Firstly, the reason my family died or was injured was because of my evil nature 

 

不是中国的非法警察搞的，那是因为我的邪性带来的 

Not the illegal police 

 

那么毛泽东主席，他一家人最后都是残死，那毛泽东就更邪了 

then the entire family of the President Mao Zedong died tragically, then president Mao would be the one who is more evil 

 

那刘少奇家人为他，也是死的死，亡的亡，抓的抓 

the family of Liu Shaoqi was either dead or arrested 

 

他本人也是死那么惨 

Liu himself died tragically as well 

 

他也是，那他就是邪神了 

He would then be the most evil 

 

邓小平先生家里面，遭受的挫折更大 

Mr. deng xiaoping s family suffered from even more frustration 

 

那小平同志那不就是，那更成了邪神了吗 

Does this mean Xiaoping is the evillest? 

 

包括我们现在的习近平主席的父亲，习仲勋先生 

Mr. Xi Zhongxun, the father of President Xi Jinping was put in jail several times 

 

一生多次被关，家里人更惨啊，按要他这个定义 

and his family suffered even more. According to this definition 

 

中国共产党的高层领导大多数都是邪性的 

Most of the higher officials of the communist party are evil 

 

何况那是事情根本不是事实，我是被害者 

I am indeed the victim, not to mention the above are not facts 

 

所以说，这样的事情竟然在中国国内广泛传播 

However, such rumors are widely spread in china 

 

在公安部的国徽之下去传播，这是个悲剧 

Spread with the emblem of Ministry of Public Security, this is indeed a tragedy 

 

这完全是违法的 

This is entirely illegal 

 

那您现在要干的这个事情，除了你这个爆料 

So, what is your long-term goal in the future by revealing such secrets 

 

你要往以后看，你要达到一个什么样的目的？你想看到一个什么样的效果 

What do you hope to achieve? 

 

现在因为咱们这个国内呀，我要爆料的人，要分清楚 

Because of our country, I will make it clear whose secrets I want to reveal 

 

我爆料的不是这个国家，不是这个党，也不是这个政府 

I am not revealing the secrets of this country. Nor this party, not this government 

 

我希望这个政府越来越好 

I hope this government would get better and better. 

 

我希望共产党发展得越来越健康 

I hope the Communist Party develops into a healthy party. 

 

我希望这个国家越来越强大 

I hope this country will get stronger and stronger. 

 

就是因为这个，我认为我今天爆料的这些政治局委员 

Under this context, I think regarding the people I have spoken of today (and their secrets), these Politburo members. 

 

包括傅政华先生，包括下一届常委，他们都是绑架了国家机器 

Including Mr. Fu Zhenghua, and the next Standing Committee members, they are responsible for kidnapping this country. 

 

是绑架了习主席 

They kidnapped President Xi 

 

利用习主席的这个反腐运动 

They exploit the anti-corruption campaign launched by the President Xi. 

 

那么这个事情，很大的一个危机对中国 

This is very risky for China. 

 

我爆料的目的就是要揭穿他们 

My aim is to reveal secrets and to expose the truth. 

 

同时实现我的个人利益，就是说，保钱，保命，报仇 

And to accomplish my personal interests in the meanwhile, which are securing my property, my life, and my revenge. 

 

更重要的事情是，我想推动依法治国，希望能依法反腐 

What is more important is, I would like to put forward rule by law and fight against the corruption in accordance of law. 

 

就说您现在希望要做到的，已经超出了你个人的报仇啊 

In other words, what you are hoping to do right now is beyond revenge...... 

 

一定是这样子的，我深信在海外 

That’s right, I believe that there is around one to two trillion of assets involving. 

 

他们这些贪官的资产大概在一两万亿人民币 

These corrupted officials overseas 

 

同时，我希望能帮助未来把在海外的贪官的资产 

I wish to bring these assets back 

 

未来能给拿回国内去 

To the country in the future 

 

让我们这十三亿人还有很多吃不起饭的同胞们 

I hope that our 1.3 billion compatriots, including those who are suffering from starvation. 

 

能应该拿回属于他们的钱 

can eventually have their money back. 

 

这是非常非常重要的 

this is extremely important. 

 

而且通过我的接下去的爆料，我能预测到 

I am aware that I am revealing secrets at considerable 

 

会给我的家人和我带来很大的风险，甚至是死亡 

risk to myself and my family, including death. 

 

我也做好了一切的准备 

I have prepared myself well 

 

但不管如何，我都会走下去 

I will keep on going no matter what 

 

那您是一个个人，当然您是一个和普通人不一样的个人 

You are a man, different from the ordinary people, you are powerful. 

 

您的力量也很大，但是还是一个个人对整个一个（政权） 

Still, you are just one man against everything else 

 

这个是的，北京的领导给我打电话，昨天和前天都打电话 

Yes, that’s true. The leader from Beijing called me yesterday and the day before that 

 

说文贵你这是螳螂挡壁（螳臂挡车） 

He said that I am like ‘a mantis trying to stop a chariot’ 

 

你这就是自取灭亡 

Which means digging your own grave. 

 

我说，你说错了，我一个螳螂挡臂没问题 

I told him that he was wrong. 

 

13亿个螳螂挡你这个壁，一定会把你给蹶折的 

If a mantis cannot do much, then how much, then how much can 1.3 billion mantises do? This will definitely pull your wall down.  

 

他说，那走着瞧，我说：咱们走着拭目以待 

He said ‘then we will see.’ I replied so let’s wait and see. 

 

13亿之一，您是一个比较大的一个螳螂 

of those 1.3 billion, you are a comparatively larger mantis. 

 

我觉得关键是，接下来我希望能唤醒所有十几亿人 

I think the key is to awaken the 1.3 billion people.  

I hope I can do it. 

大家都应该为自己的尊严，和自己的利益 

People should stand up and fight for their dignity, interest and rights. 

 

和自己的权利吧，都应该站起来，不要老趴在地上 

Stop lying on the ground. 

 

不要捂着耳朵，不能蒙上眼睛 

Clutching your ears and covering your eyes. 

 

因为我的今天，就是所有人的明天 

This is because what is my present, is everybody’s future. 

 

特别是中国的私营企业，我的今天资产，家人 

I am talking about the private enterprises in China specifically. 

 

员工受到如此的凌辱，如此的威胁 

My assets, family and staff were insulted and threatened. 

 

中国那个私人企业，你能保证你不是下一个郭文贵呢？ 

Which private enterprise in China could guarantee that they will not be the next one to be treated as Guo Wengui? 

 

我们只希望依法治国，治理的治，依法治国 

We are simply hoping for rule by law. 

 

中国有法制，但是你得依法治国，不能以人治国，不能以黑治国 

China has a legal system, but you have to have rule by law instead of rule by people, or rule by gangs. 

  

那么现在我们这些私人企业在中国，每个人都很害怕 

The private enterprise in China, like us, are very afraid nowadays. 

 

所有私人企业家都告诉我说，他们最害怕的就是 

Many private entrepreneurs have told me, 

 

每天去机场，就是安检那一块儿 

The security check was what worried them all day whenever they went to the airport. 

 

还有回国的时候，在过机场安检的那一块儿 

The same situation applies on the way back to the country at the airport. 

 

所有的企业家都是遑遑不可终日 

All entrepreneurs are worrying all day. 

 

这样的中国经济会好吗？ 

Would this benefit China’s economy? 

 

这样的中国经济即使好了，那也是将付出巨大的代价 

We have to pay a huge cost even though China may eventually have a strong economy. 

 

因为人们都不安全，人们都没有尊严 

This is because people are not safe, people lack dignity. 

 

所以说我的目的就是要找回属于我的公平 

Therefore, it is my goal to retrieve my own justice. 

 

找回所有像我这样草根的这些的人，发展到今天基本的权益 

The ordinary rights and benefits for  

 

还有我们应该有的一些安全感 

The lower social class and the security we are meant to have. 

 

我认为中国到了这个时刻了 

I believe China’s time has come. 

 

中国一定会崛起，中国一定会腾飞 

China is going to rise and soar. 

 

但没有这个保证，中国即使腾飞与崛起，也一定是灾难 

However, even without the guarantee of rule of law, it would be a disaster for China even if it succeeds. 

 

你是把自己看成一个有使命感的 

So, are you consider yourself a man with the sense of purpose? 

 

我当然啦 

Of course, I am. 

 

我在海外的控制的基金资产是一千亿美元 

The overseas fund under my control is a hundred billion US dollars. 

 

这是巨大的 

This is huge. 

 

我真的不需要去挣钱了 

There is no need for me to earn even more. 

 

我跟我的所有合伙人都说，我未来的绝大多数时间 

I have told all my partners, I will spend most of my time working 

 

都会为了中国的依法治国 

On bringing the rule of law to China in the future. 

 

为中国的不公平事件，我去争取 

I will fight for the injustices in China. 

 

这是我的主要工作了 

This is my priority. 

 

我希望我的财富，把我的财富花到为中国人民，中国同胞们 

I hope the Chinese, especially those of lower social class like us, and the private entrepreneurs, 

 

特别像我们这些草根，还有私营企业家们 

Could benefit from my wealth, I hope there will 

 

少一些郭文贵的这种家庭、员工的这种灾难性事件的发生 

be less tragedies like those of my family and the employees of Guo Wengui. 

 

这将是我主要的爆料的目的 

These are the ultimate goals of me keep revealing secrets. 

 

你说自己这方面的报负，让我想起了美国富豪索罗斯 

Your aspiration reminds me of George Soros, the American billionaire. 

 

他也是用自己的财富要实现，要实现改变这个社会 

He attempts to change contemporary society at the cost of his wealth. 

 

做一些事情，您觉得这个模拟恰当吗？ 

Do you think this is an appropriate analogy? 

 

我，非常不恰当，我不舒服 

This is not an appropriate analogy, I feel uncomfortable with it. 

 

我不喜欢这个比喻，他老人家，我很尊重 

I don’t like this analogy, though I respect Mr. Sorts very much. 

 

我觉得中国需要索罗斯这样的恶人物 

I think China doesn’t need people like Mr. Soros. 

 

在中国像我们这样的人，去跟政治对抗 

People like us, we fight against polities, for changes in China. 

 

或者想着去改变，这真的比螳螂挡壁（螳臂挡车）还夸张 

It is even harder than “a mantis trying to stop a chariot.” 

 

我们想做和能做的事情，必须可以有理想 

What we plan, and what we do, it must be driven by ideals, 

 

不能理想化，更不能有幻想 

But not be out of reach. It must not be a fantasy. 

 

我们今天能做的，最基本的 

What we are working on at the moment is very fundamental. 

 

 

希望这个国家别把我们这些私人企业家当猪养 

We are simply hoping that our country doesn’t treat us like it treats its pigs. 

 

就是把你养起来，然后就把你杀了 

That is to say, you will be killed when you are fat enough. 

 

不准你说话，然后把你肉给你吃了 

You cannot voice otherwise or else we will kill you for meat. 

 

我就希望我们这些私人企业家 

I wish the private entrepreneurs, like us, 

 

或者这些草根老百姓们，连猪狗都不如 

And all those general citizens, would not be treated like they mean nothing. 

 

那我希望能得到起码人的尊严，起码的安全感 

I wish to fight for human dignity and a sense of security. 

 

这是我说我要争取的 

to lay groundwork so we can live as ordinary human beings. 

 

索罗斯先生要做的事情 

What Mr. Soros is working on is revolution, 

 

那是跟国家权利的对抗和改变，是革命 

which is to fight against state authority, and fight for change. 

 

那我觉得，第一个，中国承受不起这样的事情，也做不到 

I think, firstly, China cannot afford and cannot do the same thing. 

 

另外一个我也不这么想，我认为中国现在还是不能乱 

Secondly, I do not agree to do so, I think China still needs to remain a stable entity to a certain extent. 

 

习主席是一个千年不出的伟大政治家 

President Xi is a once in a generation politician. 

 

他非常危险，因为他很孤单，很孤独 

He is in danger because he is lonely and alone. 

 

他周围我不相信，不超过十个人，是他真正信任的人 

I believe there are less than 10 people he can trust. 

 

很多人利用他在反腐，来去绑架了他 

There are so many people using and hi jacking him for the anti-corruption campaign. 

 

那么他作为国家的最高领导，他有很多难言之隐 

As a top leader, he surely has a skeleton in the closet 

 

我认为我的呼吁，能让他听到更多底层的声音和真实的声音 

I believe my voice appeals to him, as mine is the voice from the lower classes, and so the true voice. 

 

这已经足够了，我非常有信心习主席会给我这样的公平 

This is sufficient. I am confident that President Xi will provide me with such justice, 

 

会让中国走向依法治国的时代 

and lead China to the age of “rule by law”. 

 

谢谢 

Thank you 



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